Editor’s Note: This summer, the School of Philosophy Fudan University hosted The Second International Graduate Summer School of the Sino-Australian Philosophy of Life Sciences Network (SAPoLSN), themed “Cognition Across the Tree of Life”. On August 12, Associate Professor Susana Monsó, an expert in animal cognition from the Department of Logic, History, and Philosophy of Science of Universidad Nacional de Educación a Distancia, delivered a lecture titled “Do Animals Understand Death?”On her personal website, she writes that if she could choose to be another species, she would choose to be a humpback whale. In an interview with Monday Dialogues on Scholarship, Susana Monsó explained the reason behind this intriguing remark and shared her academic journey in the study of animal cognition as well as the importance of an interdisciplinary perspective.
Susana Monsó
Susana Monsó is a philosopher working on animal minds and animal ethics, currently an associate professor in the Department of Logic, History, and Philosophy of Science of UNED, Madrid (Spain).
Most of her research has focused on (socio-)cognitive capacities traditionally viewed as uniquely human, such as morality or a concept of death. She is the author of Playing Possum: How Animals Understand Death.
（according to https://susanamonso.com/）
Q1
Let’s begin with this life-science philosophy summer school. Could you share with us the main topics and focuses of your course? And what do you expect the students to achieve in this course?
I think this is a very special summer school because it has a number of traditional lectures where we're covering aspects of cognition in different parts of the tree of life. We're doing cognition in animals, in plants, and in single-celled organisms, like slime mold. In addition to that, we also have several different sessions on professional development. We're teaching the students various academic skills, like how to write a paper and how to do public philosophy. And we're also having a special session at the end on well-being for academics. Given that a lot of academics struggle with mental health issues, we're trying to give some of our tips for staying healthy while doing academic research.
Q2
Your research focuses on animal minds and animal ethics, particularly in exploring cognitive abilities traditionally considered unique to humans. Could you share what inspired your interest in this field and what drives your continued research?
I studied philosophy as an undergraduate, and then I went to London to do a master’s in global ethics. There, I specialized in animal ethics. While reading some of the most important texts in animal ethics, I realized that philosophers in this field often make claims about animal minds or build their research on assumptions about animal minds without carefully examining what scientists say about how animal minds work.
I thought this was a weakness in these theories because it meant they might not actually reflect what animals are like or how their minds function. So, I decided to do my PhD in animal minds to become a better animal ethicist—to improve animal ethics by understanding animal minds.
But I mostly stayed in animal minds partly because I’m very sensitive to animals. I need to keep a certain distance from animal suffering because it upsets me, so I find it easier to work on more abstract topics, like what it means for animals to have morality or how they understand it.
I’ve also found that while animal ethics is a field with a long history and many researchers, the philosophy of animal minds is a much younger discipline—and there’s still a lot of work to be done. I’ve stayed there because it feels like it needs more support than animal ethics, and I really enjoy being part of that.
Q3
In your research, you have proposed that animals’ understanding of death exceeds human imagination. Could you explain further on the core findings of your research and tell us how have they challenged the anthropocentric perspective?
So basically, the core idea behind my research on the concept of death is that understanding death is actually not that hard if we think of it in terms of the minimally sufficient understanding of death. There are different degrees of complexity in how you can understand death. Some of the ideas behind the notion of death are quite abstract and complex—for instance, the inevitability of death is very hard to understand.
But the idea of understanding what it means for an individual to have died is actually quite easy. It just means understanding that the individual cannot do the sorts of things that they normally could do, and that this state cannot be reversed. Because it's actually quite a simple idea and is also related to a lot of abilities that have to do with survival, the concept of death can be expected to be quite present in the animal kingdom and much more widespread than we used to think.
So it's research that challenges anthropocentrism both by thinking of the concept of death in ways that aren't necessarily human-like, but also by challenging the idea that we are the center of the universe and the only animal that can understand it.
Q4
Your research involves interdisciplinary collaboration with scholars from various fields. Could you share how you typically cooperate with researchers from other disciplines, and how has this interdisciplinary approach contributed to your research?
I think interdisciplinary research is really important because the scientific system encourages excessive specialization. It pushes people to become highly specialized in very narrow topics. What this often means is that different disciplines don’t have meaningful dialogues with each other; they end up operating in isolated, parallel ways. As a result, findings from different fields aren’t integrated.
As a philosopher, I have the advantage of not needing to do empirical research. I work only with literature and my own reasoning, so I can move easily between debates and disciplines to integrate insights. I don’t think all philosophers need to do this, but it’s valuable when some engage in interdisciplinary research to help bridge gaps between fields.
It’s not always easy—different disciplines use terms differently and employ distinct methodologies, making it hard to find common ground for collaboration. But I find it very rewarding. This approach makes research better informed and more relevant to the real world.
By integrating empirical research into my work, my arguments stay closer to reality rather than being confined to abstract, ivory-tower philosophy disconnected from the real world.
Q5
You are concerned with the ethical implications of animal cognition research — like how humans should treat animals. You also actively promote public understanding of animal cognition. To further advance public understanding and critical thinking, what else do you find needs to be done?
I think it's very important to do public philosophy. In fact, I'm going to have a session on public philosophy as part of the summer school because I believe there are many misunderstandings about philosophy among both laypeople and scientists.
People tend to think of philosophy as either traditional historical philosophy or very abstract topics, like contemplating the meaning of life. They often don't realize there's a large body of research that actively engages with scientific disciplines and tries to support scientific inquiry.
I think it's important for both laypeople and scientists to understand this. It would make scientists more open to collaboration.
I also believe philosophy has much to offer the world because it helps us think more clearly about problems. We face all kinds of challenges in the world today, and philosophy can help us think more carefully about these issues and find solutions to them.
Q6
Many students, both in the summer school and outside the program, are interested in animal philosophy. Given their diverse backgrounds and varying levels of knowledge, what advice or words of encouragement would you offer them?
I would say that it's a field that is really growing, both animal ethics and animal minds. There's a lot of research coming out all the time. There are more and more people, more and more PhD students, more and more master's programs on this, and new conferences. So it's really a field that's very much alive. And if you want to be a part of it, you're going to find a very rich international community that is working on these things.
But my personal advice, if you want to work on animals, is to pay attention to animals themselves. So don't just imagine what animals are like, but really read the research and do research into animal behavior and animal cognition, because the diversity that is out there is much bigger than what we can imagine.Animals are much more complex and much more interesting than we could ever just imagine from the armchair. They always have the capacity to surprise us. And I think it's very important that we do our research in a way that's empirically informed, so that we're actually talking about what animals are like, and not just what we imagine them to be.
Q7
On your personal webpage, you mentioned that if you could choose to be another species, you would choose a humpback whale. We are quite curious about this. Could you briefly introduce the characteristics of humpback whales and, if possible, share the reasons why you want to be one of them?
Humpback whales are really interesting species because they appear to be a possible candidate for cumulative culture among animals. Cumulative culture is a form of culture where modifications accumulate over time and are inherited by different generations.
Humpback whales have very long vocalizations that we can hear in the ocean. The vocalizations differ, but the whales seem to repeat them. They appear to learn these songs from each other and modify them. Certain trends emerge while others disappear, suggesting a form of culture transmitted across generations.
These songs are truly amazing. I encourage all readers to listen to them. On any music platform, you can find the album "Songs of the Humpback Whale," recorded in the 1970s. The songs sound completely different from human music - they're very beautiful and somewhat mystical.
(a picture of a humpback from Unsplash)
I find them absolutely fascinating. When you see humpbacks swimming and breaching, they're so beautiful and graceful. These animals migrate enormous distances with such majesty. I've always felt deeply fascinated by them. Yet we know surprisingly little about them since we can't keep them in captivity, which limits our ability to study them.
We don't even understand the purpose of these songs. Are they for attracting mates? Just for enjoyment? This mystery fascinates me. I sometimes wish I could be a whale for just a little while, to better understand these incredible creatures I find so interesting.
